Transforming Cities with the Gospel

There is a lot of talk among churches as being 'relevant'.  I urge you to go beyond being 'relevant to our culture' to seeking to transform the city you live in.   At Kaleo Church we see the gospel story as a salvational message, means for ongoing grace renewal by God and the announcement of God's Kingdom on earth.  We must see the good news as a call to bring shalom in our cities and be a city within a city that is a foretaste of the eternal Kingdom to come.   Here are a few resources that have been suggested to us: 

The Missional Leader: Equipping Your Church to Reach a Changing World

To Live in Peace: Biblical Faith and the Changing Inner City

Communities First (including a theology of development) 

Asset Based Community Development (pdf)  ABCD Institute website

  • David Alexander

    March 16, 2007, 12:53 pm

    Hello Drew.

    I read the Kaleo review in this weeks Reader…and glanced over your post about Kaleo Church.

    I would love to get together with a bunch of you at one of your fellowship groups sometime…and challenge you all to show me where the reality is in your rhetoric.

    Who do you know, Drew, who is actually loving you just as He loved His disciples? Who is laying down their life for you each day just as He did for His? And who are you doing that for? Where is the reality in your talk? Where is the walk? Really?

    Your idea of grace…and your idea of the Gospel…I find very much at odds with the plain statements of the Son of God Himself.

    For example…one of many I could give….quoting David Fairchild, “”The Gospel is news about what Jesus has done; is is not advice about how to live…If my role is to teach you about what to do, then what I’m saying is that you can be saved by following my teaching.”

    What would you call the Sermon on the Mount, Drew? If not the Son of God teaching us about how to live and what to do?

    And what do you do with the plain fact that at the end of it, He specifically and emphatically says this (paraphrased): “If the actual practice of your life, the way you live, does not line up with the things I have just said….don’t even kid yourself. You are NOT on the rock yet!””

    “He who hears these sayings of mine, and puts them into practice is building his house on rock….and he who doesn’t is building his house on sand and when the storm comes he will lose everything!!”

    He said He won’t even judge you…but the words that He spoke will judge you on the last day.

    If you can’t look at your life, Drew…and honestly know from how you live your life that it lines up with His words and commands…with the Sermon on the Mount and all that He commanded…you have no basis for real confidence that you have passed from Darkness to Light.

    Trees are to be judged by their fruit…and the worst fruit of all is pretense.

    I would love to discuss this at any time, with you or with anyone else, at any place of your choosing. These are eternally important questions.


  • David Fairchild

    March 17, 2007, 9:29 pm

    I’m saddened to see that without knowing Drew or his life, you’ve immediately assumed a position of omnipotence relating to his fellowship, life, and church.

    What you are confusing is the role of justification and sanctification. It seems to me that you’re basing your justification on your sanctification (this is what I do to know that I am saved), rather than basing your sanctification on your justifcation (this is what I do because I know that I am saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone). You see, this was the problem of the Judaizers in Galatia. They based their justification on the moral and ceremonial law and Paul comes along and with a Gospel bazooka and blasts those ideas back to the pits of hell.

    Galatians 2:16-21 yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified. 17 But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18 For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19 For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if justification were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

    This entire passage deals with the error of someone who assumes that they might be justified by works of the Law. This is very significant because Paul is speaking to Peter and rebuking him for his prejudice against the Gentiles. He draws him back to some very important doctrinal truths which he repeats. This is play off of his rebuke in chapter one of the Judaizers which clearly shows that they had transmuted the gospel and reversed its causal order. The order is: believe in Jesus Christ, you are saved, then obey out of gratitude. The Judaizers taught: believe in Jesus Christ, obey the law, then be saved. Anyone who would distort the order are considered anathema which means cut-off and condemned.

    Many in Christianity base their security and assurance on the circumstances of their lives or upon the current depth of their spritual barometer. The Scripture teaches us that our security does not come from that which we do, have done, or may do, but upon the imputed, passive righteousness of Jesus Christ, received by faith, which then assures us of our pardon so that we have peace with God. Our justification is our motivation for obedience, not the other way around. If we attempt to keep the plates spinning by looking at our works moment by moment, we have moved from grateful awareness of Christ’s righteousnes into the changing tides of our own. This does not produce inward transformation which then creates outward reformation, rather it creates a dynamic of pride, hypocrisy, and a self-righteous, Pharasaical attitude which is more repulsive to the Good News than outright heretics.

    My suggestion is that you begin to think through what it is that gives you security that you are indeed in Christ and have peace with God. Is it your work? Is it your righteousness? Is it your feelings? Is it your prayers? Is it your sincerity? Is it your pure motives? Or is it the righteous record of the only one that kept the whole law and imputes it by faith to those who repent and believe in His FINISHED work.

    It is not that the Bible has no commands or imperatives, but those commands and imperatives can only be kept if we live out of the reality of the One who kept them for us. Christ didn’t come primarily to live as a good moral example for us, He came to live in our place, to die in our place, and to rise from the dead a victorious Savior who can grant salvation to whomever He chooses. Without a transformed heart by Grace (living out of what God has done on our behalf already) you will never keep the laws unto God’s glory. To assume, even in the smallest degree that you are justifying yourself or keeping yourself justified by your obedience is to insult the sacrifice of Christ and make His atoning work upon the cross nothing more than divine child abuse.

    Romans 3:19-31 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law, although the Law and the Prophets bear witness to it– 22 the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all who believe. For there is no distinction: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 and are justified by his grace as a gift, through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God put forward as a propitiation by his blood, to be received by faith. This was to show God’s righteousness, because in his divine forbearance he had passed over former sins. 26 It was to show his righteousness at the present time, so that he might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus. 27 Then what becomes of our boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? By a law of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law. 29 Or is God the God of Jews only? Is he not the God of Gentiles also? Yes, of Gentiles also, 30 since God is one. He will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then overthrow the law by this faith? By no means! On the contrary, we uphold the law.

    Romans 4:1-5 What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3 For what does the Scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” 4 Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due. 5 And to the one who does not work but trusts him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness,

    Romans 5:1-6 Therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ. 2 Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and we rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 More than that, we rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces endurance, 4 and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, 5 and hope does not put us to shame, because God’s love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who has been given to us. 6 For while we were still weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.

    Romans 5:9-11 Since, therefore, we have now been justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. 10 For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life. 11 More than that, we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received reconciliation.

    Galatians 3:11-14 Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for “The righteous shall live by faith.” 12 But the law is not of faith, rather “The one who does them shall live by them.” 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us–for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree”– 14 so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

    Galatians 3:23-29 Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24 So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25 But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26 for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

    Galatians 5:3-12 I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. 4 You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. 5 For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love. 7 You were running well. Who hindered you from obeying the truth? 8 This persuasion is not from him who calls you. 9 A little leaven leavens the whole lump. 10 I have confidence in the Lord that you will take no other view than mine, and the one who is troubling you will bear the penalty, whoever he is. 11 But if I, brothers, still preach circumcision, why am I still being persecuted? In that case the offense of the cross has been removed. 12 I wish those who unsettle you would emasculate themselves!

    David, do you see the definitive declaration of this justification having been already received? Then, if it is already accounted, how could you add to it or maintain it by your works? Your righteousness is filthy rags to God, the only acceptable and loving gift that God will receive is one of faith in His Son working out it gratitude in a life lived in obedience BECAUSE YOU ARE ALREADY SECURE IN CHRIST. Any less than this motivation and you will find yourself in a wage/debt relationship with God, and let me assure you, this is not the relationship you want.

    Let the Gospel of grace sink deep into your heart as you ponder the wonder and splendor of God who came in the flesh to live a life you could not have lived, and died a death you should have died to bring you to peace with a Father who holds you securely in His arms by preserving grace.

    John 10:27-30 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30 I and the Father are one.”

    Think carefully about this quote from George Whitefield:

    “Lastly, I‚Äôm not sure what you think, but I know that I cannot even pray without sin, I cannot preach to you or anyone else without sin. I can do nothing without sin, and my very repentance wants to be repented of, and my tears desire to be washed by the precious blood of my Savior. Our best actions are nothing more than dressed up sins. Before you can speak peace to your heart, you need to not only repent of your sin, but also of your own righteousness. There must be a deep conviction before you can be brought out of your self-righteousness. It is the last great idol to be taken from the heart. Have you ever felt the need of the righteousness of Jesus Christ, and not just the forgiveness? Can you say, ‚ÄúLord, you may justifiably damn me for the best works I have ever performed? If you are not brought out of yourself in this way, you my speak peace to your heart, but there is no peace. You must at last come to place of holding onto, by faith alone, the all sufficient righteousness of Jesus Christ. Then and only then, will you have peace.”

    Live out of that reality and you will find power and joy in your obedience.

  • D. Goodmanson

    March 18, 2007, 1:52 pm

    I don’t need to add much to David Fairchild’s response. But David Alexander, as I recall for me to be saved, I not only need to do all that you write, but I must move and live in one of the Twelve Tribe communities. I asked several members of your community what would happen to someone who believed exactly as you do, but did not move to your community. All of them said they would not be saved.

    When I went and spent time with your community I was greatly impressed by your zeal, but to react against ‘cheap-grace or easy believism’ with legalism is damning. Grace sets you free to obey from a place of gratitude. When we obey from a place of legalism, we become self-righteous, judgmental of others and diminish the finished work of Jesus Christ.

  • David Alexander

    March 19, 2007, 9:12 am

    Hello, Drew.

    It sounds great to say that “Grace sets you free to obey from a place of gratitude.” I heard such things the whole 27 years I was a devout evangelical…but the fact is, none of us were truly “obeying from a place of gratitude” in any consistent way, as George Barna’s research demonstrates. Our lives were essentially the same as the lives of the “unbelievers” all around us. There was, and is, no demonstrable fruit of obedience in the lives of those who have come under your “gospel”.

    Where is the evidence that you are “obeying from a place of gratitude”? There isn’t any.

    Can you read the Sermon on the Mount and know that it reflects your actual daily life?

    If not, you are NOT “obeying from a place of gratitude”…rather, you are using a false definition of grace as a cover for holding on to your own life…as a cover for the pretense of obedience…while all you are offering HIm is a wretched sacrifice of what is left over after you have sought to meet your own needs and sought your own glory.

    Do you love the world, or the things that are in the world, Drew? If so, the love of the Father is not in you.

    Who at Kaleo church, or anywhere else, other than your own immediate family, are you truly living for with nothing held back for self….as Yahshua loved His disciples?

    You are not living for anyone that way….because the “gospel” you are promoting and have accepted does not demand that you love anyone that way…with the self-denying love of God, that holds nothing back for self. There is not even a context for living totally for God in the kind of system you have embraced and are perpetuating.

    Can you read 1 John with confidence that you are actually living it out? If you claim to know HIm, and do not do the things that He commanded, you are a liar and the truth is not in you.

    The real Gospel is a call to utterly forsake yourself for the One who utterly forsook Himself for you…to completely abandon your life in the world and all it consists of, to come into a completely different life….being added to the community of those who have given all for the One who gave all….to live no longer for oneself, but for HIm who died for us and rose living completely for the members of His Body and to seek and save the lost.

    This is not works salvation…but saving faith, real faith, that trusts Him enough to actually do what He commanded one must do to become HIs follower.

    The false gospel that you are promoting, Drew….says He can save those who do not trust HIm enough to do what He says. This is a blatant lie…a misrepresentation of His Way.

    As He Himself said, “Why do you call me Lord, and not do the things that I say?”

    As He Himself said, “He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.‚Äù (John 14:21)

    We are saved…we can only get onto the narrow path that leads to life…by trusting Him enough to actually do what He said one must do to become HIs follower.

    The Gospel is not a call to just believe in what He did in some superficial way that costs nothing….or costs a little…or costs us 90%.

    The Gospel is a call to believe in what He did so completely, that one is willing to bet one’s life and all that it consists of on the truth of His word and the basic promise of the Gospel…that if we are willing to give Him all….completely give up our lives and be joined with HIm in His death…that certainly we also will be joined with Him in His resurrection…that if we forsake living for ourselves and give up our lives in this world and all that they consist of…He will give us His life in exchange.

    The Gospel is a call to die, as Bonhoeffer said…and this is not just supposed to be a theological concept…but the practical reality of becoming a disciple.

    The true Good News is that if you would just give up your stinking, rotten life….and surrender yourself to Yahshua in His People…He would give you the very life of God in exchange…a life of loving one another just as He loved His disciples…a life of not having to take even one thought for yourself, for your own needs..but being set free to love, set free to lay down your life for your friends.

    There is no greater love that this. It is heaven come to earth..the very life of God, embodied in a People.

    But you would rather keep on seeking your own glory…selling a cheap gospel of easy believism….just PRETEND to believe that “He did it all”…and we don’t have to do anything but believe..and out of gratitude, we obey…..”

    Hogwash. You aren’t doing it, and deep in your hearts, you know you aren’t doing it. You are still living for self and for the world, in every way under the sun that one can imagine, and giving God and one another the leftovers.

    The real Good News sets us free to love…and crucifies everything but love, everything that is self.

    He didn’t give all, so we wouldn’t have to. He gave all, to blaze a trail for us to follow. He gave all for us and calls all who would follow Him to give all for Him…this is not “sanctification”, but the price of simply entering through the narrow Way that leads to life.

    I am sure many of you are sincere…but you are not on the Way…the narrow Way that leads to life.

    Luke 14:25-35

    25 Now great multitudes went with Him. And He turned and said to them, 26 “If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple. 27 And whoever does not bear his cross and come after Me cannot be My disciple.

    28 For which of you, intending to build a tower, does not sit down first and count the cost, whether he has enough to finish it— 29 lest, after he has laid the foundation, and is not able to finish, all who see it begin to mock him, 30 saying, ‘This man began to build and was not able to finish’?

    31 Or what king, going to make war against another king, does not sit down first and consider whether he is able with ten thousand to meet him who comes against him with twenty thousand? 32 Or else, while the other is still a great way off, he sends a delegation and asks conditions of peace.

    33 So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has cannot be My disciple.

    34 “Salt is good; but if the salt has lost its flavor, how shall it be seasoned? 35 It is neither fit for the land nor for the dunghill, but men throw it out. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!”

    The gospel you preach, explains away Luke 25-33….as well as all the other commands of Messsiah that set the true cost of discipleship and define saving faith. As a result, the gospel you preach is described rightly in verse 34 above…it is not even fit for the dunghill, according to the very words of Messiah.

    There is a Way that leads to LIfe. That way is Yahshua…and trusting Him enough to actually do what He commanded one must do to follow Him.

    I would love to get together with all of you sometime and have an “open forum” discussing these questions. Either we are both wrong, both preaching a false gospel that puts us under a curse…or you are, or we are….

    If you have a real hope, you ought to have the courage of your convictions to defend that hope face to to face against the accusation that your hope is false. I am telling you, you have believed in a false hope and a false gospel…and what’s worse, you are passing it on to others.

    Somebody is under a divine curse here. It is no light thing.

    David Derush

  • David Alexander

    March 19, 2007, 11:06 am

    Hello, David.

    Thanks for your reply.

    I based what I said about Drew and his faith, on what I learned from spending some hours hearing his heart face to face when he visited us….and on the “gospel” I read a summary of in the San Diego Reader review of your message at Kaleo Church.

    It is a “gospel” I am very familiar with, having been a devout evangelical for 27 years.

    It is also something I am very familiar with the fruits of. They stink, to be frank. This “gospel” of salvation by “grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone”, has borne very bad fruit…and continues to do so.

    Go to and read the studies, if you haven’t already. The fact is, the life of the average person who believes this “gospel” is no different in any significant way from the life of unbelievers. Did Yahshua mean it when He said to judge trees by their fruit? Or not? I think He meant it.

    If the fruit is bad, David, the fact is, the seed is bad. This “gospel” you are preaching is a genetically modified organism…a bad seed….and that is why it bears bad fruit. You should have the guts to face up to the fact that the Gospel needs to be restored if the life of God in the believing community is going to be restored.

    Like all very dangerous lies, this cheap grace gospel of yours has a large element of truth in it. The problem is, you have changed the very definition of grace…the very definition of faith… and even the very definition of Christ….to something totally other than how God defines those things.

    Real grace DOES something, David. It DOES something. It teaches those with ears to hear to surrender themselves utterly to the will of God, which is self-denying love:

    “11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.” (Titus 2:11-14)

    The grace of God THAT BRINGS SALVATION….is a grace that teaches total self-denial and a set apart life of zeal to do “the works prepared beforehand that we should walk in them”…works of love and unity that cost everything….all self-life.

    Real faith, as the Word defines it, David, also DOES SOMETHING…read Hebrews 11…it is full of descriptions of what true faith is and what it does.

    Real faith compelled Yahshua to live completely for His friends….and to love His friends to the end…and give up His LIfe for them, and even go into death for them.

    Real faith compelled Abraham to take his only son up the mountain and bind him and put him on the altar and take up the knife to slay him.

    Real faith compelled the Twelve to forsake all to follow HIm…to leave their nets, their tax booth, etc…and actually forsake their lives in the world to go and be with Him where He was.

    A lack of real faith caused the young ruler to be unwilling to give up everything to follow Yahshua…and he went away sad…not having laid hold of eternal life.

    Real faith compelled Paul to willingly “suffer the loss of all things” that he might gain Christ and be found in Him not having any righteousness of his own…but that which is through faith in Christ…..a true faith that compelled him to willingly “suffer the loss of all things” that he might “gain Christ”.

    Real faith compelled the 3,000 that responded on the day of Pentecost, to gladly give up all that they possessed to the common use of the apostolic community. They gave up their own lives in the world, that they might be together, with one mind and heart…gladly sharing all with all their friends, learning to love each other just as the Son of God loved His disciples. All who had lands or houses sold them and brought the proceeds and laid them at the feet of the apostles…so there were no needy among them. Real faith, working through love, compelled this…and real saving faith will always do so.

    The real Son of God is the Yahshua of the Gospels, David…the One who desires to save all, but can only save those who trust Him enough to actually pick up their cross and follow in His footsteps. He is the Way, the Truth and the Life…and HIs way is described throughout the Gospels, and is summed up in places like Phillipians 2:5-11:

    5 Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, 7 but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. 9 Therefore God also has highly exalted Him and given Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

    The real Yahshua was compelled by faith that works through love, to empty Himself and take the form of a slave of love obedient unto death….to love HIs friends with nothing held back until it killed Him.

    This is His Way, the Way of salvation and there is no other. No one can be saved by Him…no one can call Him Lord in truth….apart from trusting Him enough to follow in His footsteps…apart from emptying oneself and taking the form of a servant obedient unto death, as He did for us.

    He did not walk this Path, this Way, so we wouldn’t have to….but rather, He walked this path to blaze a trail for us to follow Him in…and there is no true salvation…or true sanctification, apart from following Him.

    True faith truly follows Him…and the community of those who are truly doing so is the necessary context for this…coming into a life of laying down one’s life for Him by laying down ones’ life for His friends…and having all one’s needs met through the Body by the love of God rather than by self-seeking.

    False faith pretends to follow Him…while holding onto one’s own life in this fallen world. And of course, false faith clothes this ongoing self-life in religious disguise….but it stinks to high heaven. He who claims to abide in Him, ought to walk just as He walked. And there is no real basis for assurance that one has passed from death to life, apart from knowing that one’s life is daily poured out for the brethren just as His was…as John plainly says. (1 John 3:14,16,23)

    You have heard, I am certain, of the tightrope walker across Niagra Falls: The Great Wallenda, the greatest tightrope artist, stretched a rope across the deadly Falls…and proposed that he would walk across blindfolded, pushing a wheelbarrow.

    A huge crowd of 10,000 gathered on the riverbank….cheering him on.

    Wallenda cried out to the crowd, “Who believes that I can do this? Who believes?”

    “Wallenda, you are the greatest!”, the crowd cried. “We know you can do it! We believe in you!”

    They all loudly proclaimed their faith in the great highwire artist.

    Then Wallenda called loudly, “Whoever truly believes……climb in the wheelbarrow!”

    Dead sllence ensued.

    Did the crowd have real faith? Clearly not. Their faith was a game, nothing more…not anything they would bet their lives on.

    So, David, this is not a question of Galatianist heresy…but a question of what is the biblical definition of true saving faith. It seems quite clear from the many plain things the Messiah said…that His idea of saving faith was that it was a persuasion of the worth of the Son of God…and of the need to be saved from the death that IS self-life….that would cause one to willingly give up their very life…willingly climb in the wheelbarrow…that He might take one through death to real resurrection….exchanging the death of a life bound by fear of death and self-life and the love of the world, for the very life of God Himself…a real life of love and unity, set apart from the world in a true believing community.

    The lie that you are preaching is that you can have the glory of the Resurrection…apart from embracing the death of the Cross. You can’t. It is a false hope. The real Gospel is a call to believe in the Son in such a way that you are willing to give up your life in this world…and any “cost of discipleship” that is one iota less than that….is an absolute lie…a “gospel” not even worthy of throwing on the manure pile.

    You aren’t proclamining the real Gospel, David…and you certainly aren’t giving anyone a context for obedience to it.

    I would love to discuss these things with you face-to-face. These are real questions, deserving of close attention.


  • D. Goodmanson

    March 20, 2007, 9:42 am

    David Alexander – I don’t think it’s going to be fruitful for us to post back and forth regarding your beliefs. Clearly we believe you are perverting the gospel and that your narrow view of salvation (that you must live in your community to be saved or your belief that there were no true Christians for hundreds of years) to be outside the bounds of scripture. The Twelve Tribes is a cult that is extra-Biblical, adding a yoke of bondage on people.

    I’ll point people to previous posts on the Twelve Tribes if they want to discuss with you:

    Is the Twelve Tribes a Cult? (Where 50+ posts have been made regarding the impact of the Twelve Tribes legalism and your beliefs.)

    My Review from a visit to your community:

    David A. feel free to post your comments there.