Comments on: Church Structures in lieu of Community http://www.goodmanson.com/church/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/ Church Technology, Internet Ministry & Church Planting Wed, 08 Feb 2012 16:24:31 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: Jeremy Pryor http://www.goodmanson.com/church/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/comment-page-1/#comment-133456 Jeremy Pryor Wed, 05 Dec 2007 01:58:22 +0000 http://www.goodmanson.com/2007-11/29/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/#comment-133456 One of the reasons we've failed so badly at discipleship is that mis-categorize it. We think - - Discipleship is Teaching (sermons and sunday school classes) - Discipleship is Mentoring (one-on-one pairing up) - Discipleship is Support (community) Our success with discipleship increased exponentially when we realized simply that discipleship is training. It sounds simple but I've never seen a church actually treat discipleship in that manner. There are elements that are always true of training - 1. There's a clearly defined process 2. There's a defined outcome 3. It's repeatable 4. It's personal 5. It's hands on 6. It requires practice on the learners part 7. Its best done in a defined group 8. The trainer is skilled and prepared etc. When we ask people to describe a training experience they've had that was effective we list lots of elements that everyone knows and has experienced but NOT in the church. One of the reasons we’ve failed so badly at discipleship is that mis-categorize it.

We think –

- Discipleship is Teaching (sermons and sunday school classes)
- Discipleship is Mentoring (one-on-one pairing up)
- Discipleship is Support (community)

Our success with discipleship increased exponentially when we realized simply that discipleship is training.

It sounds simple but I’ve never seen a church actually treat discipleship in that manner. There are elements that are always true of training -

1. There’s a clearly defined process
2. There’s a defined outcome
3. It’s repeatable
4. It’s personal
5. It’s hands on
6. It requires practice on the learners part
7. Its best done in a defined group
8. The trainer is skilled and prepared
etc.

When we ask people to describe a training experience they’ve had that was effective we list lots of elements that everyone knows and has experienced but NOT in the church.

]]> By: Brian T http://www.goodmanson.com/church/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/comment-page-1/#comment-132942 Brian T Mon, 03 Dec 2007 22:51:12 +0000 http://www.goodmanson.com/2007-11/29/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/#comment-132942 Drew et al, Something that is clear from the Willow Creek "Reveal" study that is never mentioned is that they found their congregants unable to "feed" themselves spiritually. While I agree that adding programs is not a solution and that 1st century practice suggests organic community and discipleship as process, part of the limited structure or leadership or discipleship process (whatever name we want to give it) should include things like: how to pray, how to read the bible yourself, etc. (basic Cx disciplines that seem to have gone the way of the buffalo). And this could/should be done in community so that we learn from one another's experiences. Drew et al,
Something that is clear from the Willow Creek “Reveal” study that is never mentioned is that they found their congregants unable to “feed” themselves spiritually. While I agree that adding programs is not a solution and that 1st century practice suggests organic community and discipleship as process, part of the limited structure or leadership or discipleship process (whatever name we want to give it) should include things like: how to pray, how to read the bible yourself, etc. (basic Cx disciplines that seem to have gone the way of the buffalo). And this could/should be done in community so that we learn from one another’s experiences.

]]> By: This Week In Blogs « Sets ‘n’ Service http://www.goodmanson.com/church/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/comment-page-1/#comment-132306 This Week In Blogs « Sets ‘n’ Service Sat, 01 Dec 2007 04:21:14 +0000 http://www.goodmanson.com/2007-11/29/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/#comment-132306 [...] Drew Goodmanson talks about “Church structures in lieu of community.”¬† [...]

]]> By: D. Goodmanson http://www.goodmanson.com/church/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/comment-page-1/#comment-132148 D. Goodmanson Fri, 30 Nov 2007 21:39:55 +0000 http://www.goodmanson.com/2007-11/29/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/#comment-132148 Here's a good post to continue to emphasize that point: http://thehsus.com/views/2007/11/27/willow-creek-confession/ Here’s a good post to continue to emphasize that point: http://thehsus.com/views/2007/11/27/willow-creek-confession/

]]> By: Keith Watson http://www.goodmanson.com/church/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/comment-page-1/#comment-132106 Keith Watson Fri, 30 Nov 2007 19:13:40 +0000 http://www.goodmanson.com/2007-11/29/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/#comment-132106 Drew, I agree. Programs have not only replaced community, but also process. Discipling is a process. And the best place for the process to take place is in community. It seems that was the way Jesus built disciples and in turn it seems to be the way that the 1st disciples multiplied. Drew, I agree. Programs have not only replaced community, but also process. Discipling is a process. And the best place for the process to take place is in community. It seems that was the way Jesus built disciples and in turn it seems to be the way that the 1st disciples multiplied.

]]> By: Darby Livingston http://www.goodmanson.com/church/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/comment-page-1/#comment-132043 Darby Livingston Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:40:03 +0000 http://www.goodmanson.com/2007-11/29/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/#comment-132043 I agree with your last statement as well and look forward to your next post. I am encouraged by all the thinking in this area. I agree with your last statement as well and look forward to your next post. I am encouraged by all the thinking in this area.

]]> By: D. Goodmanson http://www.goodmanson.com/church/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/comment-page-1/#comment-132040 D. Goodmanson Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:29:27 +0000 http://www.goodmanson.com/2007-11/29/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/#comment-132040 Darby - Agreed. I'm not saying we should not have ANY structure, just much of church structure/programs is to overcome a lack of community, particularly in the discipling/development areas. I'm working on my next post which will outline the structure we are moving toward. Darby – Agreed. I’m not saying we should not have ANY structure, just much of church structure/programs is to overcome a lack of community, particularly in the discipling/development areas. I’m working on my next post which will outline the structure we are moving toward.

]]> By: Darby Livingston http://www.goodmanson.com/church/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/comment-page-1/#comment-132034 Darby Livingston Fri, 30 Nov 2007 17:09:07 +0000 http://www.goodmanson.com/2007-11/29/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/#comment-132034 Drew, I've wrestled with the same issues as you addressed here. When we planted Come As You are Fellowship, we expected that community would flow from the gospel. As we created our cell group leader training material, I argued that though community is created by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God, and is overseen and served by elders and deacons, there is a need to structure community on earth that we will not need in Heaven. Here are my reasons: 1. The church is missional - yet to enjoy the fullness of the age to come 2. The church is immature - yet to understand the nature & fullness of true love 3. The church is militant - yet to finish its struggle against Satan & sin 4. The church is mixed - yet to be cleansed of false professors Those concerns are what led us to refine and nurture our cell group/ celebration structure. While I can only imagine how natural community will flow in Heaven, we simply cannot enjoy it that way on fallen earth. Structure is required, and therefore should be part of any church's expectations. Just my two cents. Drew,

I’ve wrestled with the same issues as you addressed here. When we planted Come As You are Fellowship, we expected that community would flow from the gospel. As we created our cell group leader training material, I argued that though community is created by the Holy Spirit through the Word of God, and is overseen and served by elders and deacons, there is a need to structure community on earth that we will not need in Heaven. Here are my reasons:

1. The church is missional – yet to enjoy the fullness of the age to come
2. The church is immature – yet to understand the nature & fullness of true love
3. The church is militant – yet to finish its struggle against Satan & sin
4. The church is mixed – yet to be cleansed of false professors

Those concerns are what led us to refine and nurture our cell group/ celebration structure. While I can only imagine how natural community will flow in Heaven, we simply cannot enjoy it that way on fallen earth. Structure is required, and therefore should be part of any church’s expectations. Just my two cents.

]]> By: Keith Watson http://www.goodmanson.com/church/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/comment-page-1/#comment-131747 Keith Watson Fri, 30 Nov 2007 00:48:30 +0000 http://www.goodmanson.com/2007-11/29/church-structures-in-lieu-of-community/#comment-131747 Good stuff, Drew. We are headed there, but as a chuch plant who hasn't even started weekly we are miles behind you - good for us, we'll be watching you! Good stuff, Drew. We are headed there, but as a chuch plant who hasn’t even started weekly we are miles behind you – good for us, we’ll be watching you!

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