8 Responses for "The ManKind Project Article"

1. Bruce Chant February 23rd, 2005 at 6:22 pm 1

   The MKP looks like a kind of post modern freemasonary for UFC enthusiasts.

2. Chris Hill August 1st, 2005 at 1:19 pm 2

   I wouldn’t touch the MKP with a barge pole. I have had damaging experiences with them as their processes are unsafe. They seem to worship anger and raging. When I question them on the wounds that I have received in their group, they seem incapable of questioning the MKP dogma.

3. Eric September 17th, 2005 at 9:21 pm 3

   I am sorry to hear you had a bad experience with MKP. It’s not for everyone. Wouldn’t you agree, though, that many many men enjoy positive results from the New Warrior Adventure? For most, it is at least a powerful journey inward - for some, it’s an interesting experience - and, for others it is life-altering.

4. D. Goodmanson September 18th, 2005 at 5:02 pm 4

   The ManKind project, in my estimate, is a desire to recover lost man-ness that our culture has attacked over the last 30 years. Our fathers have failed us and most men have become wimps. While I agree with some of ManKind’s assesment, I disagree with their solutions which deal with the issue at a symptom level. The bottom line is we are bancrupt to solve our guilt, fears and insecurities on our own. There is no amount of ‘looking within’ that will solve these problems. This is why people need to realize their bancrupt state and recieve grace from our Father - God. I have seen what happens to men who move from being orphaned (spiritually, emotionally) to sons of God. This is the only answer. We were made in God’s image! That is what we need to recover and stop running to man-centered thinking.

5. C. Kane October 25th, 2005 at 7:45 am 5

   I have heard the same argument for not going to doctors and hospitals because prayer can heal us. Having been Christian from my youth I have known people who have inflicted great pain and suffering on others in the name of God. They seem to forget that we are all sinners and that God asks for Mercy not Sacrifice.

   I have been involved with a similar organization to the Mankind Project since the 80’s (Kairos Foundation) and feel lucky to have found the MKP since I moved to the area. This past weekend I participate in a ‘Boys to Men’ mentoring program affiliated with MKP. It is hard to believe 9 boys could live with so much pain and guilt. If you want to see miracles, be one of the 40 men that staff a weekend. The boys arrived children and left men with hearts filled with joy and hope. They know that they are not alone. That nothing they do can not be forgiven. As children, they are not to be blamed for people divorcing, dying, beating or molesting them. They know that they are children of God, are perfect in their imperfections and do not need to earn either God’s love or ours. They are loved and will always be loved.

   As a journalist I am surprised you didn’t attend the course yourself, instead of the 2hr informational pre-session. Granted it costs money and would take up a weekend, but wouldn’t it be better to write your experiences, than having your readers dismissing something of great value because of your prejudice. Not having participated in the workshop I can understand your bias. Like a pagan discussing Christianity after attend a worship service. It is like “Talk Radio’ that substitutes an individual‘s opinion for fact. This is what gives ‘Christian Journalism’ such a bad reputation. Faith is not fact nor do we need to ignore fact to have faith. Granted many people have been damaged by Christianity malpractice, but were you not able to find a single professing Christian to interview? I know many that have taken the course.

   Faith in the family, Hope in recovery, Charity in service to others and Love of the human race, this is what Mankind Project is all about. When Christ’s disciples complained that others were using his name to cast out demons, Jesus says ‘whoever is not against us is for us’ Mark 9:38. If your family needs shelter, do you shun the hammer and say God will build me a house, if your children are hungry, do you ignore the plow and say God will provide. One of the sins of the Pharisees was being closed minded. MKP is a tool that God has given us to heal the sick. Thanks be to God.

6. D. Goodmanson October 25th, 2005 at 11:51 am 6

   C. Kane,

   “I have heard the same argument for not going to doctors and hospitals because prayer can heal us.”
   What same argument? That I don’t believe going to MKP is where people should learn their solutions to man’s ills? Kane, this has nothing to do with my observation and is not the same argument I am making. Do you really believe that because some particular ‘un-named Christian’ decides not to go to a doctor my comments about MKP are not valid and therefore everyone should go to MKP? From my hours of observation, conversation with people in MKP, I have no confidence that their ways will help solve man’s TRUE problems. These are spiritual problems at the core. I am not discussing physical problems.

   “Having been Christian from my youth I have known people who have inflicted great pain and suffering on others in the name of God.”
   I am sorry for your experience. I agree with you. What I have found is that those who inflict pain and suffering are not living out what they preach. But I would not dismiss all of Christianity and promote MKP based on your experience. Your statements of personal experience attempt to do exactly what you saying I should not do.

   “As a journalist I am surprised you didn’t attend the course yourself, instead of the 2hr informational pre-session. Not having participated in the workshop I can understand your bias.”
   As a journalist I interviewed people who attended the course and provided information from their perspective. I hope if you read the article you’ll see I do not focus on my opinion, but on what these men stated. (Did you read the article?) Here on my blog I comment about my opinions, which is the reason I started my blog.

   As an aside, Kane I’d recommend you examine ‘logical fallacies’ when you set-out to defend or attack a position, I believe your appeal to emotions, non sequitur hospital comment and other comments don’t help make your point. I’m more than happy to keep conversing about these matters though.

7. C. Kane November 16th, 2005 at 3:45 pm 7

   First I want to thank you for this conversation. I am sorry that you feel that I am attacking your position. The article certainly is not a condemnation of MKP but more of ‘Faint Praise’. I believe that provided with more information you will better understand my position.

   “I’d recommend you examine ‘logical fallacies’ when you set-out to defend or attack a position”

   Having taken courses in logic (Computer) I do no see the fallacies you mention and so assume that I was not clear. I do have a problem skipping logical steps. They seem obvious to me but are not to others. I hope that this helps to clarify my words. Like any human organization MKP is imperfect. MKP and the Warrior Workshop are not the answer to everything. That is religion’s role.

   From your reply that I referenced:

   “I disagree with their (MKP) solutions which deal with the issue at a symptom level.” (Goodmanson)

   This is what I replied to when I said.

   “I have heard the same argument for not going to doctors and hospitals because prayer can heal us.” (Kane)

   Wouldn’t you agree that some Christians believe that man’s health problems can be cured by prayer alone? From what I understand of what you say that only God can cure our spiritual problems.

   Now I don’t think you believe that all man’s health problems are caused by his sinfulness but you seem to believe that all of man’s emotional problems are caused by his sinfulness. Here is why I believe they are not. It has to do with my taxonomy of man’s concerns.

   First of all, I believe there are 4 internal concerns of man: physical (i.e. strength, fitness, flexibility, etc.), emotional (i.e. expression, impression, sympathy, empathy, etc.), mental (i.e. awareness, memory, belief, reason etc.), and spiritual (i.e. integrity, acceptance, willingness, courage, etc.). And four external concerns: material (structual, funtional, economic, personal, etc.), social (respect, trust, relationship, mercy, forgiveness, etc.), intellectual (thought, language, information, humor, etc.) and theological (faith, hope, charity, obedience, sacrifice, etc.)

   Our physical, emotional and mental states all impact our spirituality well-being. The parallel I draw is between Physical wounds and Emotional wounds. If we can treat one then why can’t we treat the other?
   Where the medical profession heals physical wounds, the ‘MKP’ program heals emotional wounds (abandonment, addiction and abuse).
   It’s that simple. I have seen the workshops resolve peoples emotional issues.

   “I have no confidence that their ways will help solve man’s TRUE problems.”

   Of course you have no confidence. I wouldn’t expect you to have any confidence. People had no confidence in airplanes nor vaccines nor a thousand other things before they were proven. Then again many people still have no confidence in things that have been proven. Remember the Pharisees had no confidence in Jesus.

   And what do you mean by TRUE problems? Are you talking about salvation? MKP does not offer salvation. But how about anger, fear and shame? Are these TRUE problems?

   I have seen ‘miracles’ where over a weekend sad angry men transform into happy hopeful people simply by changing long held negative beliefs.
   Its not magic, its science along with a lot of patience and compassion.

   “But I would not dismiss all of Christianity… .” (Goodmanson)

   Interesting that you seem to assume that I am not Christian. Most of the men who participate in MKP are religious, the majority Christian. (are you in California?) I certainly don’t dismiss Christianity since I practice it myself. MKP and ‘Boys to Men’ are part of my mission to help others.

   “But I would not … promote MKP based on your experience.” (Goodmanson)

   Interesting, you wrote the article based on others experience. Your article does not seem neutral. Its not so much what you say but what you don’t say. Did I misinterpret your article?

   “As a journalist I interviewed people who attended the course and provided information from their perspective.”

   From what I understand there are primary sources, secondary sources, terciary sources, etc.” In covering the Iraq war for example, some journalist interview politicians, veterans, service personnel & parents in the US, others go to Iraq.

   Still you didn’t seem to find any one who was a practicing Christian who had taken the course. I would think that this would give the article more balance. I know many Christian ‘Warriors’ and still suprised you didn’t find one. I do not know your situation: full time journalist, part-time, student, schooling, financial means, etc. My belief is that if you had attended the workshop with an open mind you would recommend it.

8. christos October 7th, 2006 at 10:00 pm 8

   Having attended an MKP weekend I can say I found it psychologically damaging. The process of de-humanization and privation made me feel horrible. Watching others comply with commands solely to conform was disturbing. I believe there are more constructive and mature ways to get in touch with one’s masculine aspects. I believe that psychodrama should only be administered by qualified professionals.